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Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce a member of our Board of Governors at the

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National Investigations Committee, Mr. Joseph B. Hartfraff, head of the Aircraft and Owner

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Pilots Association.

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Probably many of you already know about it.

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The 100,000 member organization embraces most of the pilots in the United States and

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in many foreign countries.

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He was a Lieutenant Colonel in the Air Force in World War II.

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He is President of the International Council of AOPA Units around the world and has served

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on many committees in Washington in connection with air safety and particularly in connection

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with private flying.

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He has been on our Board of Governors for eight years.

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Mr. Hartfraff.

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Thank you, Major Keoh.

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Gentlemen of the press, I have no prepared presentation here today.

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I'd like to speak just a word about NICAP.

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I am not a technician.

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I can probably answer very few of your questions concerning current sightings.

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These should be properly addressed to Major Keoh and other members of the staff.

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I have this comment to make.

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I think there is nothing more devastating to a reporter than to be the victim of a hope.

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And indeed we have in this whole picture of unidentified flying objects, a case history

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where ridicule has proven to be one of the most devastating of all weapons to subdue comment.

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I mention this initially because that part of the UFO picture which I have been familiar

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with comes largely from the reports of pilots throughout the United States and the subsequent

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events which have taken place when they have stepped forward with their findings.

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It is true too, I think, that any subject which is an unsolved mystery is bound to attract

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many crackpots, many people who have as their sole purpose exploiting some popular thought

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for their own benefit.

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Only four out of every five books that have been written on the subject of unidentified

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flying objects have been motivated not by real scientific research but by some individual

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endeavor for personal aggrandizement or for commercial purpose.

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Now my interest in this and in the NYCAP organization came about through these experiences.

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I will speak in a moment about the government position as I understand it, but there was

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a need in our thought for some group who had no commercial acts to grind to get together

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and look at these various sightings as carefully as possible.

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This has been done.

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At first it was difficult to attract people of any prominence, but later as NYCAP showed

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that it was just as interested in exposing the charlatans as it was in giving serious

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study to those sightings which seemed to merit such attention, gradually a core of expertise

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was assembled consisting of various scientists, astronomers and so on, now numbering I think

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close to 200, is that not right, Don?

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Individuals whose own professional representation gave stature to the endeavor.

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When you run into situations in which techniques such as radar take these sightings out of the

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realm of sheer speculation and when you have situations on what I call triple confirmation

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and experience pilot in the air who sees and reports a finding, a ground observer who sees

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and reports the same thing in the same place, and a man at the end of a radar tube who is

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reporting echoes on his radar scope, then it is time to think in terms of the expertise

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that is required and not to speculate.

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So many professional pilots have contacted us, men of great experience, airline pilots

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and military who through the years have been through all of the gauntlet of the phenomena

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of the sky, the northern lights, the roar of Borealis, St. Elmo's fire and all of these

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things which can create quite weird and startling experiences, seasoned to all of this, who were

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forced to write on their sleeves and who are professionals in every sense of the word,

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very anxious not to become involved in any exploitation, very anxious to maintain their

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professional status and who still come forward and say, gentlemen, I had this experience

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which I think should be reported.

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Now all pilots today by law in the civil air regulations as you probably know are required

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to report any observations that may come under the heading of unidentified flying objects.

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It seems strange in some way that the government position frequently appears to be to obtain

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this information and then either through government policy, and I will not get into that part,

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I think that is up to the others, or through whatever motivates the government position

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to try and immediately ridicule the experiences of these people.

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I'm mindful of people like a prominent physician in Oregon who recently wrote to me the substance

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of what he had to say was that he had a very substantial practice, and he had a very substantial

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practice. He did not want his name drawn into a controversy, he did not want to lose his

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practice by being subjected to ridicule, however, he had just gone through this experience with

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certain people in his airplane and he thought that some government agency should be properly

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informed and then he proceeded to describe what he saw.

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In the strange part, all of these people from various parts of the country sending in these

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kind of reports who have never met each other are reporting substantially the same kind

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of thing. So we have a mystery, so we have an organization

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which has set itself up in an effort to be entirely objective drawn out by the government

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and by the charlatans and the exploiters and to try to bring the residue of these sightings

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into some kind of a format which can be studied and evaluated.

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It's been a great pleasure for me to serve in a fairly inactive capacity with these gentlemen

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who have all professional abilities upon which they can make these substantial contributions

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and I view this as keeping a communication line open so that we do not have a lot of

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news stories going around about people reporting little green men coming out of things, out

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of sheer exploitation and yet on the other hand being sure that the residue of these

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reports which have some real substance are not buried under some form of government policy

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which dictates secrecy or suppression. This is my interest, this is the reason I have

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identified myself with NYCAP and why I'm very happy to be associated with Major T. Hall

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whom I now introduce and who will take over the podium. Thank you very much gentlemen.

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Ladies and gentlemen, according to the United States Air Force, in following a policy which

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is set probably fairly high in the Pentagon, there are about 250 or 300 extremely incompetent

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airline and military pilots in this country. They're carrying passengers, they fly across

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the oceans and they seem to be quite safe. The airlines let them continue to fly even

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though they have reported UFOs but in their UFO reports or after they have made them the

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Air Force has stated that they did not see what they thought they saw and in effect they

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are incompetent. The same thing applies to several hundred radar officers, radar men,

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traffic controllers and others who are responsible for bringing you in safely, particularly in

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bad weather to the terminals and major airports. It also applies to missile trackers, rocket

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trackers and in general to competent, reliable citizens around the country. Now if you add

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them all up you will find there are at least 100,000 people in this country embracing almost

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every trade and profession besides all the military and all the flying personnel who

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simply cannot be trusted, their judgment cannot be trusted at least in regard to what they

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see in the sky. Now this is not an attack on the Air Force spokesman or the project

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spokesman, they are simply following orders to explain away all UFO sightings as quickly

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as possible when they become public and deny that UFOs really exist. Now over a period

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of nine years we have gathered about 8,000 reports of which at least 1,500 of them come

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from extremely competent witnesses. We have reports from pilots on every major airline,

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all the military forces, the tower operators I was mentioning, astronomers, scientists,

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engineers, a very good level of emergency. Now these have been evaluated, these sightings

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have been evaluated by our staff, by scientists, engineers in their various fields. The majority

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conclusion is that these things are real and under intelligent control. Now in that group

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which has reached that conclusion there is another group and it's the majority of that

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one which believes that these things must be extraterrestrial because they are so far

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superior to anything we have. They base this on absolutely tracked speeds by radar, visual

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tracking and combinations. Now either all of these witnesses, every one of them, all

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of the thousands of witnesses here and abroad are absolutely wrong, honestly wrong, but

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they're wrong. Unable to distinguish what they see in the sky, I'm talking about pilots

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now, they cannot read radoscopes as well as they should, they can't track things with

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the senatheontal lights or modern tracking devices, they make mistakes. All of them are

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wrong. Now one single man is right or else these things are real and there is secrecy

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and the fact you're being withheld. Now we have a report here that we prepared two years

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ago, it's about 200,000 words, it contains names, details and dates of sightings by all

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of the people, or many of the people I mentioned. If you read that, I don't think you can come

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out of a complete reading of that without believing that, well it's probable. You may

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not be completely convinced, but you will not be a complete skeptic as incidentally

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I was when I started in on this years ago. Now as a result of this policy to explain

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away, you will read about a sighting and then almost instantly or within 24 hours you'll

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read something like swamp gas. Now this case, this recent case up in Michigan was investigated

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rather briefly by the Air Force and the statement was released by Dr. J. L. M. Heineck who is

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the number one Air Force investigator. He said that what these witnesses saw was swamp

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gas. They all of them denied it because they were familiar with swamp gas and since then

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we have made a preliminary investigation into the characteristics of swamp gas. It's not

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completed, but so far it doesn't seem possible that this could have been anything of the

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kind. It doesn't conform. There are also press reports that Dr. Heineck was pushed into making

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this statement public. He has since denied that he was pressured. However there have been

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cases from my personal knowledge I know that people spokesmen for the project or on the

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Air Force press desk and this was sometimes back said that they had to answer these cases

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if they could and sometimes it was embarrassing because they knew that the answers wouldn't

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stand up and in many cases they've had to retract them and go back to some other answer.

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Now recently in the famous Exeter case up in New Hampshire and probably most of you are

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familiar with that, the Air Force did publish an answer and later retracted it. Now for those

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of you who may not be familiar, this was a report by two veteran policemen of Exeter

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New Hampshire and a teenager about 19 years old who first saw this device and went to

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the police. They went out to the scene and skeptically and when they got there they found

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exactly what he had described. A very large object having close to the ground with light

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flashing in sequence creating such a blinding glare that it lit up the ground for about

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300 feet. It even caused animals in nearby buildings which couldn't see this object to

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get upset, horses kicking their stalls and wining and so on. Now this was made, we made

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this report public and it was picked up by John Fuller of Sederity Review of Literature

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and later published in Look and somehow that had more effect than any group of sightings

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that we put out in the last five years. Probably because of his prestige and the fact that he

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didn't have any axe to grind. He really went up there and taped interviews with all of

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the witnesses and came back and said there seems to be no doubt that this thing was there

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and it's real. The Air Force had first said that this was a mistake caused by low flying

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aircraft. Later they have put out this statement in an official letter but not in a release.

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Because of nightcap publicity our first report was picked up by newscasters and program directors

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and magazines and widely publicized so they reexamined it. What they did they went back

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to the police officers and queried them over again and the police officers were very much

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incensed by being called incompetent. They stated well this was wrong, they were not

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low flying aircraft, this was definitely an unidentified flying object. The same thing

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happened in another case that very same night which is not so well known down in Texas.

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On the night of September 3rd two deputy sheriffs saw a strange object in the sky and they parked

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their cruiser with the lights on near the side of the highway to watch it. It came down

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towards them and when it was about 150 or 200 feet away the light was so bright and the

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object was so near they could feel heat from it. One of the sheriffs immediately started

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the car and they went down the highway at 110 miles an hour. Now this is from the signed

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report that they gave to the Air Force and also to us. Then after a while they thought

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well maybe we better go back and take another look. So they went back, the object was there,

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it came towards them again and what more they went down the highway at over 100 miles an

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hour. Now these men aren t, they re not kids and they re men who are old enough to have

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a lot of experience in handling criminals and all sorts of law work. But they were frightened,

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they were actually terrified and they didn t mind saying so. Now repeatedly there have

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been cases where these things have come close to observers on the ground. They come close

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to automobiles, several times they have come down in front and actually touched down on

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highways or else come very close to it. In several instances causing drivers to run off

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the road or go into the ditch. All of these things added up show that there has been within

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the last year a noticeable increase in very close approaches and touch landing not only

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here but abroad. Over in South Africa last year in the fall there was a touch landing

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in, I forgot the name of the town but at least it was down in South Africa and two constables

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saw this. Their headlights fell on the object and they got a very good picture of it. As

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they got a little nearer, a blast of flame discharged from the bottom of this thing and

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it rose very swiftly and disappeared. But where it had been, the blast of flame or the weight

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of the object or both had broken through the pavement and scorched, let s see, very hot

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fire and scorched the area for some feet around. Now this was an official report and it was

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confirmed by one of the government officials in that area and still being investigated.

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I named these few cases or I described it to show you that in contrast to all of the

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ridicule that you read about, I met a golden haired spaceman and talked with him by sign

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language and then telepathy and he took me up to Venus or Mars or the moon and we had

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a wonderful time and all that and he told me they were here to save us from ourselves.

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Well we constantly fight to expose all these crack bots and to get the serious evidence

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on record. Now there is at present an increasing wave of sightings within the last few years.

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72 hours, new reports have come in including one more from up near Ann Arbor, Ann Arbor,

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Michigan. Three witnesses in that case were included a research professor on a NASA Space

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Agency project, an electronics expert and an electrical engineer. He described this

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object as about 30 feet in diameter, 6 feet thick at the center and emitting a blinding

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red glow. This is somewhat similar to the Exeter case. There have been cases since then

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in Colorado, Maryland, Florida, down in the Gulf of Mexico where a Coast Guard crew is

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supposed to have seen an object. We're still checking that one and it looks as though there

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is going to be another flare up which may extend all around the country, not only here

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but abroad. Now as I repeat all of these people are either deluded, ridiculed, they're self-deluded,

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some of them are frauds or they're simply honestly mistaken. We think in NICAP and our board of

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governors has voted unanimously on this subject that it is time to end the secrecy, bring

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the material out in the open and if we're wrong that will end it and if they're wrong

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it's going to open up one of the greatest developments in century. I was talking with

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Representative Gerald Ford, the minority leader, after his statements to the press and on Face

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the Nation yesterday and he said, I see nothing but benefit from a full congressional investigation

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said if the Air Force is right this will strengthen them and it will end all of this controversy.

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If they're wrong it should be criticized, witnesses should be brought in, the whole thing should

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be openly investigated because people are, at least some people, are getting a little

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bit concerned about this. In some cases it's even worse than concern, it's actual fear.

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In some cases I have been in a few cases where people have been so frightened they've actually

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fired at these objects which when they appeared near their cars or hovered close to the ground.

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In case any of you have not seen this, later on we will try to provide each of you with

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a copy of this called the UFO evidence which will show the names of pilots on all major

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airlines and many military officers and also the conclusions of scientists and others who

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have examined this evidence. We are now recommending that the government set up an instrumented

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network around the country which can track these objects so that they can be passed from

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one tracking station to another across the country, their speeds, their courses and even

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the shapes can be identified and within a very short time you'd have a mass of accurate

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data which you could release to the public and also the scientists who could then go

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into the various aspects of this problem. One thing it would prove is that these machines

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or devices or whatever they are move at speeds far exceeding anything that we have that can

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move in our atmosphere. They've been tracked at up to 18,000 miles an hour at White Sands

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moving in our atmosphere 50 miles above the ground. Now an ordinary conventional machine

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moving at that speed at that height was certainly burned up. Furthermore no conventional machine

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could make such violent turns, climbs and descents as these things have been tracked in doing.

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The print lately has been of great value and great help to those who believe these things

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are real and that's a serious problem and has caused a general reversal among thousands

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and I believe hundreds of thousands of people. We have collected editorials from newspapers

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all around the country and in magazines from the Christian Science Monitor on Saturday's

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review and others stating that this seems to be a serious problem, it is real and the

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government should be looking into it. As a result of this we are even getting hidden

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reports. People have been sitting on exciting reports for years, so fear of being ridiculed

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and now they are sending them in saying well it looks as though you don't have to be called

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a fool to say that you have seen one of these objects. Now there are several aspects of UFO

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operation which can be handled by various members of our staff here, for instance radar

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tracking, electromagnetic interference and other aspects. Before I turn the meeting open

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to questions I would like to emphasize one thing, there are about 50 members of Congress

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already on record who have told us that they believe this is not a joke. Many of them have

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said they would support hearings if they were brought up. If this thing suddenly does come

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to the point of hearing you are going to see and you are going to hear some of the most

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amazing testimonies from veteran pilots and people in the government, FBI agents, legislators

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and incidentally newsmen, editors and newscasters quite a number of them have reported seeing

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these things, some of them come out in the open and some don't. And I think you will

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eventually find that there is substantial evidence that we are being observed by some

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type of device which is ahead of us, far ahead of us and is probably controlled by a highly

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advanced superior civilization. Now this is a conclusion which I personally have stated

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and is shared by some members of our Board of Governors and advisors, not all of them,

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it has reached to the point where many people in the Air Force have the same conclusion.

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In fact the Air Force at one time had a top secret estimate that these things were interplanetary

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spaces. This was confirmed to us by the head of the project at that time and also by the

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monitor of the Air Force project who is now on our Board of Governors. So you will see

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that this instead of being a sub-depirated tool and a big joke actually is a serious

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matter which could affect the lives of all of us. Dr. Charles Olivier, President of the

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American Meteor Society, without taking any stand on the extraterrestrial nature of these

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objects, has said that there is no question that the information has been withheld and

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witnesses are ridiculed. The problem should be brought out into the open, examined scientifically

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and the public given the facts which have been hidden from them for this time. Pardon

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my voice is one of these sudden flu-type colds that came on me overnight. Now I would like

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to open this meeting for questions and I will try to answer some of them and turn others

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over to the people who are more qualified to answer them.

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Dr. Olivier, did you say why the Air Force has the attitude to be the American Meteor

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Society?

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Well I was told back in 1952 at a time when they were preparing to release their most

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important cases that at first, at the very first, they feared perhaps the Russians had

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gotten ahead of us with the aid of captured German scientists. They very shortly realized

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that was impossible because Russia had hardly started to rebuild its factories so the only

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alternative was that all these reports were wrong or else these things must be interplanetary.

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If so, such an admission might frighten people so it was decided best to go underwrap. The

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project was set up which was labeled secret and openly the reports were played down inside

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the project. They were considered very serious and as I say there was a majority conclusion

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that they were interplanetary. In 1953, the plan to tell the people what we had, not to

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announce any conclusion but tell them that we did have evidence of extraterrestrial operations

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that was canceled because there was a sudden outbreak of sightings and an intelligence

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Colonel Hyatt and the directorate said we would be in serious trouble announcing they

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were probably real without any idea of their purpose here. So it has been an often on movement

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within the Air Force to, some people in the Air Force believe that you should come out

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and tell everything you have. People should be told since there is actually no evidence

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of any danger or hostility. And others say don't tell anybody anything until we know

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more of the answers. Yes, we seem to be asking everyone to take an open mind and yet you

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seem to be precluding any chance of the Air Force convincing you that these are not true.

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How do you, we have studied, and the government ought to make it known to the public. They

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are not giving the Air Force a chance that they may be not real. Well, I think we have

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given them a chance. We have, I think every Air Force statement going back to the opening

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of the project, way back in 1948, we have examined them and I have talked with a lot of Air Force

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officers, some of them on the project and some not. And we have examined many cases which

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they explained and then later, the explanation was found to be incorrect. And I, one of the

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officers on the project admitted to me that they were supposed to explain these if they

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could and reduced the, as a matter of fact, their own regulations, reduced these unknowns

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to the minimum. Of course, that is natural because you want to reduce them to the minimum

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and connect to the national defense.

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And they say that they have reduced them to a minimum. That is what the Air Force tells

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you. Now, assuming that there was a congressional investigation, what, short of a finding that

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flying saucers are real, would satisfy them?

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Not necessarily a finding. Just a release of all the cases and all the information. Now,

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you could go out to write Patterson Air Force Base as I think several newsmen here have done.

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I know Mr. Griffin has been out there at least four times. You do not get all the information.

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You get summaries of reports and some of them that they care to let you see. But if you

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turned out everything, including the opinions of the pilots and all the details, the cross

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triangulation, the radar confirmation and so on, then you could make an accurate analysis.

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But at present, all the information is not available. I do not think over one-tenth of

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the information Air Force has is available. You are Mr. Heinz, aren't you?

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And it is a closed subject. The longer it goes on, the harder it is to get this information.

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Now, Mr. Hall, my assistant director, has had many occasions where he has tried to get

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to obtain information and there has either been a complete lack of it or it is a long

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delayed or, I would say, well, that was explained. Would you mind explaining about the Everglades

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case, how we are trying to get an answer to that one? What happened there?

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We have had on some occasions, we have had to go work through the Moss Committee because

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the Air Force has been so slow about providing even the most basic information. We asked

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them what did they conclude on a particular case. They do not acknowledge the letter. You

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00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:08,340
phone or write them and they either have lost the letter or something of this nature. It

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00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:15,340
takes them forever to find some simple fact in their file. Now, in the Everglades case

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that you mentioned, this was passed off. The Pentagon denied even having any knowledge that

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the case existed. And we had investigators down on the scene. This involved a low-flying,

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00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:35,380
cone-shaped object last March that a man suffered injuries in the presence of this thing, the

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mechanics of it or not. No, no, not at all. This occurred in the Everglades. The man's

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name was James Flynn. He's a highly respected citizen of the community. We had very good

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character testimony on him. Now, our investigator ran across the Air Force investigators. They

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were there questioning Mr. Flynn while he was still in the hospital. And yet, weeks later,

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when we asked him the Pentagon about the case, they denied even having any knowledge of it.

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What do you suspect the Air Force has that you don't have in the way of information?

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They may have more knowledge of the propulsion system that we have. And they may, it has

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been stated that they actually have some wreckage or any things in their hands. I've never

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been able to prove that and I don't think it's so. But they do have a lot of detailed

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reports. Now, years ago, as I say when I was seeing those, why you could get a single sighting

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and it might have four or five very closely typed pages or teletypes, details what the

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00:35:48,020 --> 00:35:53,620
pilots thought and the co-pilot or the crew aboard. Enough so you would evaluate. There's

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one over the Gulf of Mexico where every man on board a B-29 gave his opinion and the

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00:36:00,140 --> 00:36:04,460
interrogating officer gave his reaction to what they said. There was a case over the Pacific

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where an object came awfully close and there were some explosions in the sky near the plane

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and they frightened some of the crew and they said so. But you don't get that kind of report

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anymore. What are you asking the Air Force to confirm your conclusions and what you already

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believe? No. No. It's merely that they end the secrecy on sightings and stop ridiculing

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witnesses, at least the competent witnesses. An airline captain, you take captain Kylian

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of American Airlines, but several years ago, he, his co-pilot, flight engineer and the

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crew of six other, five other airlines in the general area saw three objects which were

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maneuvering in very strange fashion and appeared to be UFOs. The next morning they said that

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what he had seen was Orion through scattered clouds that one of their crews had been out

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that night and seen exactly the same thing. Which Kylian came back and said, well that

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is very odd because we were flying at such and such an altitude and the clouds were below

335
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us. We were over the clouds and we had an absolutely clear sky above. So about two weeks

336
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later they came out and found out that this was a refueling operation. Now you know very

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well that out at NORAD, they can tell you instantly what's going on anywhere. Refueling

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operations on record and you find out if not in seconds, within minutes. It could have

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been identified. It wouldn't have taken two weeks to do it. Captain Kylian said, I am

340
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quite familiar with refueling. It was not refueling and the Air Force is simply trying

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to cover this up. Shortly after that, the spokesman told the New York Hill Tribune that

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without mentioning Kylian, that quite often some of these UFO witnesses were so drunk

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they didn't know what happened the next morning. Well, that didn't go down very well with Kylian

344
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even though they didn't aim it directly at him and he started to make a big fuss about

345
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it and Congressman Ferdell here in Washington was about to invite him down for hearings.

346
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Bang, the lid went down. He was ordered to keep still and he has never opened his mouth

347
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since then about that case. He didn't spend himself.

348
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This is a worldwide phenomenon, isn't it? And aren't there places where the investigative

349
00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:43,100
court is not up to the top of the U.S. Air Force where you might be able to get some information,

350
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say Canada, say Red China, I don't care. The Air Force doesn't control all our alleged

351
00:38:49,100 --> 00:38:53,100
information throughout the world, so what do these other people say?

352
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Well, the Argentine government through their Navy Ministry has sent us official reports

353
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stating they are quite concerned over the problem and they have cited by their pilots,

354
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which has never been explained. The Brazilian Air Force at one time was doing the same thing,

355
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didn't send official reports just that they made open statements that they thought was

356
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very serious and asked all nations to join in a nationwide investigation to pool their

357
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information. The British for a while had everything open and all of a sudden the lid

358
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went down. They were very polite about it but they won't release any sightings now.

359
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If these are extraterrestrial, why is it unbelievable that little green men would jump out of the

360
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state?

361
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Well, sir, I don't know why it always deteriorates into little green men. Of course, we don't

362
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have any idea what beings from some other planet would look like. Some scientists say

363
00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:06,900
they could be smaller, could be bigger, they could look entirely different or by the law

364
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:13,900
of averages they might be some that would look like us. But that green men idea has been

365
00:40:14,860 --> 00:40:21,360
so firmly implanted that anytime people talk about space beings, they always turn out to

366
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be little green people. But the idea of beings emerging is not at all impossible and it's

367
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eyes every thing that's in our eyes is only ultimate. The idea of knowledge being淵

368
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and observational knowledge as a result of huge stresses and

369
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black and white activity, is predecessor to the ordinary people.

370
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You chase that's the outstanding one

371
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:03,880
But it's unfortunate that we have to spend time on these pathetic characters

372
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As far as reports of beings in UFOs the great majority of these reports are in the in the hoax category

373
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as the major mentioned the late George Adam ski made

374
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,280
Quite a stir some years ago writing books

375
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:34,880
About his fanciful trips to various planets in flying saucers and the golden-haired space beings that he had met

376
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,000
we investigated this man quite thoroughly because of all the stir that he created and

377
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,440
Discovered that most of his claim background was completely fraudulent

378
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:51,800
He claimed at one time to be an astronomer from Mount Palomar now

379
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,080
This is rather impressive on the face of it

380
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:58,640
But it turns out that he was located at Mount Palomar and he had a telescope

381
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,160
But the telescope was parked right outside his hamburger stand

382
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,840
This is unfortunately this the sort of thing we do run into

383
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,140
however, there is at least one case of a reported

384
00:42:14,060 --> 00:42:16,460
Occupant of the UFO which seems quite substantial

385
00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:22,700
The Air Force agrees with us that the case is definitely not explainable as anything conventional

386
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:25,620
It occurred in April of 64 in

387
00:42:26,060 --> 00:42:27,540
Socorro, New Mexico

388
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Where a highly respected police officer who had had quite a bit of experience tracking

389
00:42:33,260 --> 00:42:36,340
meteors with the New Mexico Institute of Meteority

390
00:42:37,100 --> 00:42:39,100
reported seeing two small

391
00:42:40,020 --> 00:42:41,700
suited

392
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:47,700
occupants near a UFO which after it left left imprints in the ground and

393
00:42:48,420 --> 00:42:49,780
scorch marks on the

394
00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:52,500
Mesquite bushes and the earth

395
00:42:53,820 --> 00:43:01,660
Dr. Heineck the Air Force investigator was on the scene and our man was on the scene and when dr. Heineck left he admitted

396
00:43:02,620 --> 00:43:06,060
Openly that he was more puzzled than when he had arrived. So this is

397
00:43:06,780 --> 00:43:08,780
perhaps the only case

398
00:43:08,900 --> 00:43:14,700
Where a an occupant of one of these craft has been reported which has really stood up under investigation

399
00:43:15,340 --> 00:43:19,380
The rest of them to the best of our knowledge are quite worthless

400
00:43:22,780 --> 00:43:25,340
We have no reason to believe they were green however hard

401
00:43:26,540 --> 00:43:33,060
Kind of a tracking system you propose and by whom and in terms of what kind of dollars and so forth

402
00:43:34,060 --> 00:43:40,100
Well years ago the Air Force set up what they call the grid camera system

403
00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:46,460
Which was suppose these cameras are supposed to be distributed to various Air Force bases and they would

404
00:43:47,180 --> 00:43:52,780
The idea was to see whether they could break up the light the glow from them and analyze it and

405
00:43:53,180 --> 00:43:56,820
The grids fell off of the cameras and the thing was a complete flop

406
00:43:57,820 --> 00:44:04,060
Al chop whom some of you may remember as the Air Force intelligence or information officer at the time

407
00:44:04,460 --> 00:44:07,460
He said please don't ask about that. It's too embarrassing

408
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:10,740
Turned out that they weren't any good at all. They never picked up anything

409
00:44:10,980 --> 00:44:12,260
but if

410
00:44:12,260 --> 00:44:13,780
if the

411
00:44:13,780 --> 00:44:14,820
recommendations

412
00:44:14,820 --> 00:44:21,500
Back in 53 of a group which did go into that had been followed there would have been a nationwide tracking system

413
00:44:21,500 --> 00:44:24,540
It was turned down because of lack of funds

414
00:44:24,860 --> 00:44:29,440
But it could be done and it could even be worked in probably at least in part

415
00:44:29,940 --> 00:44:32,260
moon watch teams and so on

416
00:44:33,460 --> 00:44:37,340
There if you've got a UFO and you picked it up and you can instantly buzz

417
00:44:37,780 --> 00:44:43,100
Another station in the state somewhere or other and and say it's head in your direction

418
00:44:43,100 --> 00:44:48,500
They picked it up you get a track and you get speed and you can hide find a radar you get that too

419
00:44:49,220 --> 00:44:56,540
And you you have enough data sooner or later if you'd have absolute speeds and you'd be able to determine shape and so on

420
00:44:57,140 --> 00:45:03,740
Big then to be composed of systems of cameras and radar interlocking and inter-communicating and so forth

421
00:45:03,740 --> 00:45:08,500
That's right. You've got the dark fences fade out and stay that

422
00:45:09,220 --> 00:45:12,540
Cambridge astrophysical network and God knows what else

423
00:45:12,980 --> 00:45:19,920
Why would it be necessary to spend millions and millions of dollars more to set up a special purpose network to track

424
00:45:20,060 --> 00:45:29,220
UFOs when all you need if your argument has any mark is an executive order from the Pentagon telling people to use the equipment

425
00:45:29,220 --> 00:45:31,220
They already have

426
00:45:31,220 --> 00:45:33,780
Well if they did that probably would be fine

427
00:45:33,780 --> 00:45:39,100
But they they deny emphatically that they've ever picked up anything of the kind although

428
00:45:39,100 --> 00:45:42,000
We've had individual reports that they have picked up on

429
00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:48,340
But they if they could use it then we wouldn't have to but I'm assuming that this is going to take some

430
00:45:49,060 --> 00:45:51,060
Agency outside of the military

431
00:45:55,540 --> 00:46:00,180
No, no, I don't think so it could be equipment that's already in existence and

432
00:46:00,860 --> 00:46:08,300
I think we could utilize a great deal if they military the point of it is it's pretty hard for the Air Force to divide

433
00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:16,980
They say to divide UFOs from national defense as always they said there's always a problem that maybe your phone might be

434
00:46:18,220 --> 00:46:21,820
a strict Russian craft some kind or a probe